The Petticoat Project

Meet Mr. Leland White. You may also know him as Aimee Heffernan's (from AimeeHeffernan.blogspot.com) Dad and Scott Heffernan's Father-in-Law. (from VoteOrDie.blogspot.com) As I suspected, he is one cool, grounded dude with an intuitively loving approach to the world, himself and mostly his children. Let's be honest, could he not be cool with a do like that? Doubt it. I've never met Mr. White personally, but have been able to meet him vicariously through Aimee who, like her Pops, is one incredible gal. I have been so lucky to have her in my life in various capacities and so the next obvious move was to interview her parent's to find out their tricks of the parenting trade. Hope you enjoy getting a glimpse of Leland's mind, heart and soul on his approach to PARENTING!

Leland, How do you view the world?
I view the world as the setting for the ‘mother of all vacations’! I have left my parents to go on a great adventure. My father and mother wished me well, pointed out a couple of sites they really want me to visit, but also admonished me to recognize that I am just a visitor in that place and to NOT get too attached. They want me back filled with stories and lessons learned along the way! But they do want me back. The world is for exploring and testing my applications of ‘soul work’. This view helps me make mistakes without being consumed by compunction or remorse.

Did this influence how you raised your children? Yes! I think it is my primary job to help my kids see their lives as a work in progress, with ‘joy’ being the ultimate outcome. If they can see the world as the quintessential laboratory for temporal and spiritual exploration and investigation, their souls will be infused with a natural curiosity about how the world works and how they can contribute to that world’s betterment as well as their own progress.

Leland, What would you say your parenting philosophy was?
See life from a place of abundance rather than scarcity. There are NO questions too large or too insignificant to consider, if they help you define your place in the world. And be curious about everything. Question everything, especially your parents.

What type of values did you try to instill in your children and how did you teach them?
Honesty, integrity, curiosity, love, compassion, loyalty, courage, tenacity AND passion. As much as possible, I attempt (still working at this even though all my kids are adults….) to teach them through experience rather than conversation. Although we have tons of conversations, I am an experiential learner. I also teach life’s lessons better that way. My kids learned more about the ocean by swimming in it at 3-7 years old than they would have by reading about it in a book. That is one example of many…

Where did you get your values from?
My folks and grandfolks were great experiential and systems thinkers! A great friend was a touchstone and anchor on values from 13 years old to this past weekend when he visited from SLC.

Were you affectionate? Physically? emotionally?
Yes! And I am and was spiritually affectionate as well.

How did you handle the age specific behaviors? (i.e. tantrums, lying, experimenting, rebelling)?
I am not sure I did this well. I tried to look at my kids through a more ‘eternal lens’ from the moments (4 of them, hence, plural moments) they were born. When they acted out, I tried to understand the nature of their unhappiness. That worked most of the time, but I did have moments with all 4 kids where I was heard saying, “stop that right now, you little shit!”. These were not proud moments for me, but I DID learn from them. In their teen years, I did help them understand that they were never rebelling against me. Any rebellious behavior was a statement about societal mores or rebellion against their basic nature. They always knew they were accountable for fixing any problems they created for themselves. I was either a compassionate witness to their growth processes or an expert advisor to them. I never took the problem away from them, swept the path in front of them to make life easier for them or tried to help them explain away their issues. I helped them with self-definition and embracing experience as a great teacher.

How did you discipline and what did you let slide and what did you give extra attention to?
I never grounded and spanked only on rare occasions and stopped that completely when my middle daughter Shannon pointed out that spanking was abusive behavior—a bi person picking on a little person merely because they could do it. How ridiculous was that!? My discipline was ALL conversation based. I found that asking the question, “is that how you really want to show up in life!?”, packed more power than any form of verbal or physical dominance I could have asserted with my kids. I always tried to figuratively move around to the same side of the table from which they were examining their lives and see what challenges and problems were presenting themselves to my kids. We would then explore why they were stuck and how their core values (of course we didn’t call them core values when they were 10 years old!) might help them find solutions that would have lasting value and help them make necessary positive changes. What did I give added attention to??? Issues that challenged the essence of who they were becoming were always of deeper concern for me. This was more in the late teen early twenties for my kids. How did you determine this? I determined the need for my intervention/discipline by my kids signaling that they were in trouble and needed my attention on something.

How was the topic of sex/intimacy approached in your home?
Sex and intimacy are powerful parts of our lives. When they work well and in synch with each other, they make a healthy contribution to a well-balanced and integrated life. When abused or ignored, there are few topics or issues that will throw life out of balance more dramatically! My kids learned from a very early age that sex is much more than an exchange of body fluids or mental impulses of lust. At its best, sex and physical intimacy are as close as we humans can come to sharing our very ‘beings’ with each other.

How did you bring out their individual best selves and/or make your children feel special?
This requires a steadfast commitment to being fully present and ‘in the moment’ with kids. I think my kids are mentally healthy people because we affirmed their lives AS they were experiencing life. I never felt as though there was anything more important than the conversation I was having with my child at ‘that’ moment. I tried not to be distracted with my kids, especially when they were giving me permission and asking me to lead them.

Leland, What rules did you have (i.e. no license until an eagle, curfews, etc.) that you felt were effective?
If you are caught driving under the influence, I will revoke your license until you are 21 and can make the choice by yourself’ (never had to implement this one), if we have problems, address it directly and avoid passive-aggressive behavior, before you ‘step out of bounds’ with any activity or behavior, understand your motives.

You seem to have a strong and supportive family, how have you created this?
I am not sure Marilyn and I set out with intentionality to create a ‘strong and supportive family’. We embraced the role of parenting with enthusiasm. And my family background was more balanced (but more traditional father/mother roles) than hers. Her father did not have much to do with emotional and psychological support of his kids. But her mother was terrific. However, we didn’t fall into a strong family serendipitously. We defined a way of being with our kids that seemed to work for us. And we maintain that synergy to this day. I think there was something about declaring our home a ‘safe haven’ for all who entered that invited our kids’ friends to return often and join our family conversations. Years after we moved from SLC, many of them returned because they craved that presence in their own homes with their kids.

Your children seem to be strong, capable, confident how did you facilitate this?
They evidently had a say in this. Our daughters have what we call patriarchal blessings in our faith. All three daughters’ blessings state that they chose their parents in a pre-existent state. How did we facilitate our kids becoming strong capable people? We probably got ‘an early start’ with those conversations.

Did you have special family traditions?
Beyond the normal family norms most people have, we have an informal ritual of ‘checking in’. Marilyn and I did it with all of our kids and now they do it with each other and with their own kids.

Do you have any regrets you'd care to elaborate on?
I regret ‘sweating the small stuff’ a little too much….

Excluding luck and anything existential beyond your control, what do you think YOU did that helped to influence your children for good?
I made sure my love was big enough and strong enough that they never had to question whether or not someone out there loved them. Above ALL else, I did that consistently well. If that becomes your framework for life or your ‘reason for being’, it can help you address a world full of complications and challenges beyond your control.

What is the biggest difference you see between our generation and our approach to families and yours?
I think technology introduces enough of a change agent in how people interact that I will zero in on it. Most of the changes are positive, but there are also negative consequences that manifest themselves with this difference.

If you could give some wisdom to new parents now, what would it be?
Trust your instincts for ‘loving’ more than you trust those voices that may come over the top of that love telling you that you have it all wrong. You are smarter than you think when love is the compelling motivation behind your actions.

I am very willing to admit that I could have done better! But I have yet to meet a father who loves his kids more than I do mine. For me, that matters the very most in how I continue to alter and shape my world view described in #1!


Thank you Leland. Learned a lot, inspired much. You rock the caspba :)